Podcast

Ethan

Welcome to the social media law cast I am your host social media attorney Ethan wall with me is my friend and co-host Shawn DePasquale hey Shawn.

Shawn

I am ah I am wearing comfy clothes because it's cold here today I want it just just be known that I have Ninja turtles sweatpants on right now.

Ethan

Wow I did notice that you were wearing a hoodie inside and you live in Southern California how how cold is it 60 I'm literally looking at a mirror.

Shawn

It's cold today. It's like oh let's see. It's 60 out right now but this morning when I woke up it was 56

Ethan

There's snow outside it was ° this morning and I'm wearing that short sleeve t-shirt is kind of it's true. Let's head.

Shawn

Um, right? but you have heat on I see we didn't turn the heat on because that's overkill right? because you don't want to. So we're in this precarious place where like overnight it was like ° out it was cold I mean that's cold in the inside of a room. Yeah, we have Heat. We've sent. We have gas.

Ethan

Do you then have heat I I didn't know because I because we grew up in Florida right? So I thought all hard were right one never turn the heat on and 2

Shawn

Never turned the heat on.

Ethan

I didn't realize air conditioning in a car is an optional feature. You know some cars they they just come with heat where I'm like why how it's ° outside all the time.

Shawn

I moved to Southern California and didn't realize air conditioning in a home is an optional feature because when I first moved here the first 4 apartments I lived in did not have central air and what's interesting is. Thirteen years ago when I moved here. It was basically fine. There were like as like a week every year where you'd be like oh my god it's so hot and you just like go outside and like or go to the library or do something in the last thirteen years it is so unbearably hot for such a long amount of time now. That like I have seen more and more places every place that gets built. That's new has central air in it. So.

Ethan

Totally we look. We're going to talk about a lot of lot of things that are wrong with America and the american legal system today. But what I can say in living in like two dozen different countries across the world for the past couple of years things like hot water air conditioning. Roads that are serviceable and not having the military standing with guns on the side of the road. We. We pretty much take a lot of these different things for granted so that when we find a car that doesn't have air conditioning or a house that like doesn't have it. We're like what are you talking about all of these things do and really, we're kind of. Boiled in that department because we kind of expect those basic creature comforts I guess yes.

Shawn

Those are the tenants for you I think that's interesting. So I think I think it's really interesting that those things are the things that like if any of those parts of society collapse or change over the next few years ah you're going to be the first person that I text to go like it's it's happening. Like now I know I have you on board like if we got military people on the side of the roads going forward at some point of the future I'm texting you first to be like dude we've made it dystopia's begun.

Ethan

Um, right.

Ethan

Right? I'm I'm literally I'm living in Mexico right? And so a few things one like if you have hot water all right in your shower. You got it for like a minute. You know so you got to like get it use it really quickly. You can't like stand outside wait for it to heat up. You got to get the hot water where you're going fresh water. Nope they have like tanks on the top of the of the houses right? You got to fill up those tanks every once in a while and I'm and I'm out living in ah ah San Jose Del Cabo New York kabo San Lucas

Shawn

Right.

Ethan

There's all these military trucks and like people with machine guns and I'm like should I be going back inside and and the the coworking people that I was living with they're like no that means it's safe like they're here to demonstrate. It is safe because they are not here to keep you out. They're here to keep out.

Shawn

Whatever cartel and bad guys. Yeah, what a world? Well okay, none of this has anything to do with what we're gonna talk about today but but listen listen this is the social media law cast.

Ethan

Cartel and bad people. So when you see them that means it's a good thing and yeah, it's what a world I.

Shawn

Part of social media is socializing. We did the social part now. Let's talk about the media. Let's go so I want to talk today to you about Tiktok. We've talked about this a little bit in the past, but it's an ongoing sort of ah living. Creature right now that is constantly changing the the legal battle I'm talking about the legal proceedings around tiktok is its is its own sort of living thing right now. Um, and so there's like little updates to do and so I thought it was worth checking in you and I have been trading articles back and forth over the last couple weeks. And kind of going like oh that's interesting. That's interesting. So I felt like let's talk about where we're where we were where we're at and and and where where it's going to go now from here. It's a good time to like check in because this is the. Only app in recent memory that I can think of where people are like pitchforks and torches. Let's get this app like. There was like a period right? Where like people were like oh we got to like talk to Facebook and Twitter and investigate them and the government was but that was like 20 years into Facebook and Twitter existing at all, you know what? I mean it wasn't like this is like Tiktok is only like maybe 11 years old and in that time.

Ethan

If that.

Shawn

If that and in that time it's become reviled people on both sides of the aisle and and and there's a ton of you know let's get this out of the way early on right? There's probably a lot of xenophobia wrapped up in a lot of this because it's like it's a China company the chinese want to get us. They're trying to get our kids with the dance videos and it's like the algorithm is going to turn all of our children into communists because China wants that I guess it's insane. So there is a lot of that wrapped up in this but within that there's also you know genuine concern I think about ah data privacy and child safety on social media platforms now the thing that Tiktok has. To be fair to to the its critics right? that maybe some of these other social media platforms didn't have in their although Youtube maybe in their nasient stage was is is a lot of children are interested in this app. It's almost similar to snapchat. But oddly enough snapchat was an american company and so like yeah kids are like doing a lot of sexual things on snapchat and exchanging sex videos all under age minors. You never hear about it. No one asks any questions that no even talks about snapchat. It's fascinating to me when you talk to anyone under the age of like 16.

Shawn

Ah, all of them use snapchat they all use it. It is the primary mode of communication. No one talks about it. It's fascinating. It's like this little weird world. So again, the xenophobia I think plays a large role in this. In at least starting the conversation but it has led to some genuine concerns and and questions right? What is Tiktok doing to could take to guard against all of the data that it's acquiring. Um, you know Tiktok does have a. Particularly strong algorithm that that really does seem to ah have a good predictive sense and a good learning ability to really deliver on on what. viewer is looking at and looking for so much so that it's pretty easy to even reprogram your own tiktok It's not like ah you don't need to be like a scientist you literally just like like some videos skip some other videos. Don't like videos that you normally would like and pretty soon you're getting fed a whole new slew of think you've moved into a whole new. Realm of tiktok as it were so you know it's an interesting app and there's a lot going on around it. So why don't we start with that stuff I'm gonna throw it to you now? Ethan why don't you kind of briefly walk us through like.

Shawn

What are some of the major concerns. What how have those concerns led to what are the major lawsuits that are currently pending and then we'll kind of dive in from there.

Ethan

Yeah I think it's important to both acknowledge the xenophobic aspect of this which is this company is created from China China is the us's enemy this isn't my words is the words of politicians and and whomever and therefore.

Shawn

Um, sure exactly.

Ethan

It's bad and we need to ban it and I think that there is there's 2 sides to this coin there is the xenophobic side which is wrong which is just because something is created from another company. No one is saying shut down Facebook shut down meta shut down x they're saying regulate it.

Shawn

Yes.

Ethan

They're saying change it but they're not saying that you shouldn't be in business so there is that.

Shawn

No. Also Sony has existed in this country for I don't even know how long and that's a japanese company and no one goes don't buy a playstation. It's turning our children into communists so it's Sony is Sony is.

Ethan

Yes, is that Japan or is that chat is that that so chinese japanese okay, so so we're looking at developing as yes. Yeah.

Shawn

Japanese company. Yes japanese company. That's what I'm that's what I'm saying but with what I'm saying though is Sony is a Japanese company japanese Japan is considered an ally and as such no one has said well what is the playstation doing to our children and how is it controlled. You know this is a.

Ethan

Yeah, they've said that they said about video game right? Yeah, they've been arguing about that for video games for forever remember like grand theft auto and how violence in America is as a result of a video game. Um, but.

Shawn

Very much a China Tiktok thing.

Ethan

I think on the other side of the coin there. There is factual evidence of people in China chinese citizens chinese governments just like Russian Citizens russian governments who are creating technology systems too. Steal data from people in other countries particularly in the us for competitive reasons I think we saw this play out in Russia in the twenty Twenty election and there's hard and fast evidence that people are doing it and just today in the news.

Shawn

Correct.

Ethan

Facebook or meta came out and said we shut down thousands of fake accounts that we saw were originated by someone in China that was designed to just share content from x about polarizing political issues on both sides of the fence.

Shawn

Them.

Ethan

Gearing up to have peep and it meant made it look like they were real american people who liked things so that as the election came they'd be able to to create you know, writele up, people's opinions. So I think that there is on the 1 hand a reality which is there is a changing world order.

Shawn

Um, yes.

Ethan

America has been the world order forever in our lives China is now growing and will become probably the new world order at some time from perhaps an economic standpoint and things of that nature. Just the world is changing. And so there's both fear against China and chinese companies because of that changing world order and two because there are practices that happen in those companies or in those countries that are either government related government sanctioned or just government allows it to happen because there's less regulations. In China which allows them to create lower labor stealing intellectual property has kind of been a huge thing for like a long time. So so it's not just xenophobia but I think that that's probably the driving factor from a political standpoint. For a lot of these lawsuits that we're going to be talking about today.

Shawn

Okay, so where are we at with the lawsuits. What are the major concerns. Um specifically about Tiktok right? and and who's suing whom and where.

Ethan

Yeah, so I'd say we've got excuse me 2 types of lawsuits or actions that are happening right now we've got the federal government and many state governments.

Shawn

The.

Shawn

Um.

Ethan

Who are banning the use of Tiktok by governmental agencies because of the fear of a chinese company being able to collect data and because there is a law in China that requires companies to cooperate with their federal government for information sharing purposes that they're banning use from federal employees. That's.

Shawn

Okay.

Shawn

And this is specifically if you work for the us government though. So this isn't like ah my 13 year old niece can't have Tiktok on her phone. Nobody cares. This is if you work for the government. You can't have Tiktok on your phone. That's what you're saying.

Ethan

Kind of.

Ethan

Yes, and this is happening in a number of different states as well. I'd say about half the states are are kind of having these things that's one area.

Shawn

Well, all right? Shawn's ruling let it happen I don't understand what the problem is judge Shawn says yeah, why are you on Tick Tock government employees. What are you doing. There's no reason for you to be on Tiktok. Go govern okay, tell me.

Ethan

Wow. Okay I'll play Devil's advocate all right? um government governors. Ah people who are politicians have the right to engage in speech they can speak.

Shawn

True.

Ethan

They've got first amendment rights that are a little bit more limited because they're members of the government but in a number of these cases. There has been members of the government that use Tiktok or Facebook or meta to spread out their messaging to conduct advertising and to limit or restrict their ability to use these platforms to communicate with their constituents.

Shawn

Right.

Ethan

May infringe upon their their first amendment rights.

Shawn

But is this saying they can't have a presence or is this saying they can't personally use it because that's a huge distinction right? like I get like I don't want. You know a senator to sign up for Tiktok and put all his information and then have tiktok on his phone and be walking around the white house holding his phone and being like I'm looking at fun Tiktok videos that seems shady but like could not their you know publicist representative or whatever start an account in their name and yeah is there.

Ethan

I think it becomes and I think it becomes a distinction without a difference in a way because then they still have their profile their presence they're still having correspondence communication that's happening even if it's through an agent. So I don't think that's the.

Shawn

That distinction.

Shawn

Um, ah, interesting I say.

Ethan

Big deal where these politicians are kicking down the door saying no I want to use Tiktok to be able to make funny dance videos to my constituents where I think many of those lawsuits are happening are government. Ah, people are either like restricting people's speech like blocking people who are making bad comments and they're saying whoa wait a minute this is a public forum. You're not allowed to be able to do these things. So I think there's lots of issues tied in with the government's use of ticktok the other horde of lawsuits that are coming out are.

Shawn

Then.

Shawn

Um, right.

Shawn

Right? That makes sense.

Ethan

State lawsuits by and large some in Indiana and Montana that are trying to make it illegal for people to use Tiktok within those states.

Shawn

Um, okay.

Ethan

Yes, banning ticktok. Yes, the month the Montana.

Shawn

Individual people normal human beings everyday folk. Okay, this feels this feels like a um hold on I'm going to know this because I'm both married to an attorney and friends with an attorney. This feels like a violation of bang tech time you get first amendment that's like a first amendment violation potentially to say like I got a freedom to what what it like I to express myself I also got a freedom to look at.

Ethan

Yeah, video dances.

Shawn

Dances and spend my money how I want to spend my money too isn't there like a thing that says like I'm so I'm not breaking any laws like Also it's a free app.

Ethan

Yeah, so that is one of the major defenses to these things. So a lot of these states and spoiler alert they're coming from conservative states and I'm not saying this not saying this not saying this to create like a political battle discourse I mean.

Shawn

Um, oh why? ah.

Ethan

Full disclosure I'm socially liberal I've got generally moderate views to be able to kind of see both sides but the fact is these lawsuits are being filed in Texas Florida Indiana Montana very conservative states because there is both 2 sides to their coins. They're saying 1

Shawn

Yeah, yeah.

Ethan

We don't like big tech and big tech is doing bad things with our data which I think a lot of people can kind of agree with there's not transparency in how data is being used particularly as it relates to children. Um.

Shawn

Sure, Absolutely sure. Ah, absolutely, but do they not really like big tech because of that or do they not like big tech because they feel they're being on fairly.

Shawn

Difold from saying whatever thing that they want to say wherever they want to say it and that's really the impetus for a lot of this is oh well I don't want Tiktok to exist because Tiktok told me I can't say something hateful, but then you go fall into the other problem which is what they're. Private company so they can tell you whatever they want to tell you about what you can say on their thing. Yeah.

Ethan

And that's the other side of the coin is that a lot of these social media sites and this one really isn't directed at Tiktok as much as it's directed at meta x and others. So this kind of loops everyone into the fold is is content moderation and.

Shawn

Yes.

Ethan

What and how can these platforms moderate because what happened in the timeline is 2020 election people from Russia and or elsewhere create these fake accounts and it influences the election. It does either. There was kind of facts out there. Whether or whether it.

Shawn

Yes.

Ethan

Tip the scales 1 way or the other who the hell knows but there was a concerted effort to be able to do this and so congress brought in Mark Zuckerberg and everyone and it's like you're not doing enough to moderate content. We're going to create laws to regulate you unless you do something about it so Zuckerberg and co just talking about all the other social media sites are like cool.

Shawn

Yeah, ah.

Ethan

Get it. We're gonna start moderating Content. We're gonna create our own Policies. We don't need you governing Us. You shouldn't We're a private company but let's not get there. We're just gonna get ahead of it. Do content moderation. They do it and they create rules or policies and they say things like you can't post racist Stuff. You can't post. Hate Speech They come up with these different categories right? things that are very plain on them on themselves. Okay and they either hire people or they build algorithms to try to find Keywords or activity to flag these things.

Shawn

False information misleading facts. That's this kind of thing yes should be.

Ethan

And Lo and behold. What's happening a lot of conservative-leaning speech is being banned or flagged particularly by politicians and so now the politicians are saying whoa. Now that you're moderating the content you're doing in a way that is discriminatory to our views and it's unfair to us and you are big tech your liberal leaning companies. So we want to be able to regulate you so some of the lawsuits that we are seeing now are a. Should we just ban Tiktok because of likely some of the xenophobic or data privacy type issues that are there or b how can you moderate content or we're going to create laws like in Florida and Texas that says you can't moderate content that hurts.

Shawn

And.

Ethan

Conservative-leaning views and each time you do that? There's going to be some sort of a financial penalty.

Shawn

Ah I mean okay as an attorney as this person who studies the law. What feels like the likelihood of that kind of that last 1 right of saying you can't moderate right.

Shawn

Right? Wing views because it's like a who gets to decide What's right wing and what's not and at what point like at what point does freedom of Speech go beyond and become like incendiary speech right? And so like And. Also is the rights argument in this scenario that like stifling their speech includes like they can say like any anything about anyone at any time is that I don't understand.

Ethan

So sure to look at this from a legal perspective. Let's do a super quick rundown of the first amendment not going to go too far back and I have the tendency to do that. But in a nutshell basically freedom of speech. Allows people to basically say and do what they want. Okay, but there can be limits on that speech if the speech is and and some of those limits are creating more limits on what the government can or can't do but it doesn't put the same restrictions on private citizens.

Shawn

Him.

Shawn

Right.

Ethan

Why because the law says congress shall make no law abridging the freedom of Speech and so therefore the government can limit government speech and governmental entities and it can limit. It can allow for speech to happen within what are called Public forums.

Shawn

Correct.

Shawn

Interesting.

Shawn

Okay.

Ethan

Parks and sidewalks they need to be a place where free speech can happen but the government can place reasonable restrictions what they call time place and manner restrictions on how that speech happens. So it means you have so it can't be content specific. You can't say and this is really bad that like. Nazis can't speak but you know mothers who make cookies can you can't make a content specificcific but you can say you you can only do it between noon and four p m these weekdays you have to apply for a permit you have to have police come out there to make sure that's whatever they could put certain restrictions on it. So the government can.

Shawn

Right.

Shawn

But if nazis want they can March like people that believe in that can file for a permit get together and March down the street right? We've seen it. It happens it happened in Florida recently like they can do that under the terms of America's first amendment.

Ethan

Right.

Ethan

Right? And let's be Frank between 2 jews here. It's fucking awful. But but but but yes because we do have a constitution and there are various amendments and 1 of the things that's very important in a.

Shawn

They are free to do that is that fair to say yes, but it is legally they are allowed. Right? but.

Ethan

America's culture as much as we may not like what's happening is we left england because they were restricting speech and look what's happening in Russia throwing political prisoners away from being able to speak bad about Vladimir Putin look what happens in China they have controlled media that.

Shawn

Um, bright are yes.

Ethan

That blocks Facebook and other things and look let's face it in America you got Fox News on the right you got seeing an m on the left you got everybody in between you got very few neutral news sources other than the social media law cast but it is Shawn Smiles because it's not it's not it but um

Shawn

Who.

Ethan

We do value our freedom of speech and that allows if we yeah we I know it got me at 1 point. Um, but like but we allow nazis to March because our disdain for hatred and anti-semitism in America which is which is a true value. Okay.

Shawn

Um, fair and balanced. Ah, but ah.

Ethan

Is is a slightly lower value than our collective freedom of speech and ability to do that without government restriction. So now to tie it together and I said I'd be short but I can't because that's how my mind works is the question are social media sites. Where people now go to share information and where Twitter and x was calling itself the virtual town square are those considered public forums that the government has the ability to create certain restrictions.

Shawn

Right.

Ethan

Or laws or regulations that Govern How Speech is going to be restricted or not or are they solely private companies where they get to choose their rules and do what they want and the government can't keep their hands there and your alternative is go create truth social.

Shawn

Right? right? at 1 of the one of the things I like about law is that I can relate it to improv in a very one very specific way which is law does this cool thing where it does if then what else.

Ethan

And use a different social media platform and that's really where this issue comes down.

Shawn

Right? And it's something that I think a lot of and correct me from wrong. But I think a lot of judges have to play this game when deciding on a ruling because they look at okay well what's the precedent. What's already there. What's in place and if I rule a. In opposition to that and start a new thing and make a new ruling if then what else What does my decision here. How does that then impact the next legal case that is maybe not exactly the same but deals with similar circumstances and so this is where I think this. Is a laughable push on on the on the republican side I think it's silly because I think at the end of the day unless you get ah unless you get a judge who's fully willing to not play that game and is just like in the pocket and is like sure whatever I feel like the game of okay, well if then what else. When you start to do this to private companies is too vast like the the detrimental damage that this could do to what the rights of corporations are as private entities would be so vastly damaged by a ruling like this. I think at the end of the day. no one in no one in 1000000 years is going to do it and even if they maybe consider it I think there's way too much corporate interest out there to not push back very heavily against something like that because it it. It's a Pandora's box

Ethan

It It is and that's why this is an issue of law versus politics. You know if you're looking at this from a neutral standpoint I think people would say the liberal side leans more towards.

Shawn

Kind of.

Shawn

The.

Ethan

People Consumer rights and are willing to have more government involvement in order to have more government services so we'll pay higher taxes so that people who are poor or old can get more money and we want to tax corporations higher and I think if you think an objective view of the conservative party.

Shawn

Yes.

Ethan

Is to have more rights for corporations and for the wealthy and so businesses could have more freedom. There should be less legal regulation less government regulation less taxes right? and and so think right? but now we want to have more regulations.

Shawn

Um, yes, yes, yes, yes, except here. Ah.

Ethan

And more government interactions on corporations. So it is. It's and you and you think to yourself doesn't this create a legal pandora's box from a from a law of perspective or doesn't it fly in the face of the general perception or values the conservative side but that's. Because you're thinking about it from a legal standpoint. Not a political standpoint. The political standpoint is the conservatives are your everyday people and we hate the big tax and we hate the amazons and the Facebooks and we like the mom and pop shops and we don't want.

Shawn

Right. Right.

Ethan

Our world to go the way of the dodo where everything is owned by a few different companies and it makes it unfair and so that's a big rallying cry to let's say were against big tech even though the owners of big tech. Even the big tech are corporations and the owners of them are usually rich people. So it's It's a really true.

Shawn

Sure fair. Yes. Are move and mostly conservative rich people. It's crazy. Yeah, so well. I mean if that's a case then it's like you know that aspect of it seems to be.

Ethan

Super off.

Shawn

Nih Impossible to achieve. We'll see right like good luck godspeed with you I would be fascinated to see what happens if you start to put those kinds of legal restrictions on private corporations from a federal standpoint and it does seem to.

Ethan

Well look.

Shawn

Fly in the face of what republicans generally say they want So I Also wonder from a political standpoint. What is the blowback there. But even from a legal standpoint Once you do that a little bit I feel like doesn't that then mean, okay, well can't we put other restrictions on corporations that are considered private that they're not and then. If corporations are people as we've previously established in other rulings then does that mean that you can put those restrictions on people too.

Ethan

So it's it is. It's both a ridiculous slippery slope on the one hand. It's also the reality that we have a we've got a conservative supreme court.

Shawn

Yes.

Shawn

Consider.

Ethan

Um, this is the time for conservative conservative governors and politicians to file these lawsuits because look what happened to Roe versus wade and and you you do have conservatives on the court like John Roberts who I very much respect. Find him to be very moderate even though he's very conservative and I have seen liberal judges that kind of lean in the middle as well. But then you have both liberal and conservative judges that live all the way on the other side Clarence Thomas on the 1 hand you probably as much as I loved her Ruth Bader Ginsburg potentially kind of on the other hand and I don't think to that extreme.

Shawn

Right? yes.

Ethan

But we do have a situation where there's an imbalanced court and I'm not going to say that they're going to rule all on conservative issues just because that's their leaning but we also have to embrace the reality of there's a majority conservative court and so I think we do have I believe four cases. That are going to be on the us supreme court's docket that runs I believe now through April Twenty Twenty four that relate to the social media first amendment rights and there's some of these cases. We talked about the beginning about politicians rights to use social media and block people is it a public form. Is it not.

Shawn

Yes, um.

Ethan

And regulation of the speed. So I think we are going to start getting some answers for better or for worse you know at the end of the first quarter of ah 2024

Shawn

Now all right before we wrap up I did want to touch on 1 specific thing that I thought was interesting and just get your opinion on and I think that's a good place to kind of leave off but in this ah in this ah, where was it. What is this. With the book an Indiana in this Indiana Lawsuit this guy judge de groot or girl this judge judge de gro I am de gro is I'm sure the judges catchphrase every time they walk into the court. Um, and ah but the judge says and I have a couple of questions here.

Ethan

Indiana lawsuth.

Shawn

My My biggest being I Wonder who appointed this judge but the judge says in their ruling ah that they see this lawsuit as quote being a largely political posturing. So if this judge. Has noted that in their ruling.. What do you feel that portends for how other judges will view this type of thing does that sort of indicate a feeling of hey I'm not going to let the court be used to play politics is that what that judge is kind of. Pointing at there.

Ethan

So yes and I and I don't think I don't remember if it was that state judge or if it was the appellate court that sent it back down I wasn't sure which which one made that particular comment. But um.

Shawn

Are okay.

Ethan

I think that that is focusing on the reality of the situation that we just discussed because the indiana governor I think is kind of come out and said and maybe it's the indiana governor or it's the Montana governor or and you know one of them basically said I'm going to be to thorn in the side of big tech and.

Shawn

Right.

Shawn

I know I can't remember. Yes.

Ethan

And started initiating these types of legal actions and so I think people's words and their behavior reflects in the motivations for their lawsuit. So in indiana super conservative state. But basically this was the first law that was filed to ban Tiktok their arguments were you misled children. You said that it was going to be a safe place for children. But there's salacious content on there and that's not okay and 2 you're not protecting. Children's data or our data and that can get in the hands of of China and ultimately this lawsuit was dismissed for lack of jurisdiction saying these are California companies.

Shawn

Um, right? oh.

Ethan

Don't have jurisdiction over it and this Indiana specific consumer protection law they said look because downloading an app is free. It is not commerce. It's not a transaction. We have no jurisdiction. Basically the Indiana judge in a nutshell just said you file it somewhere else I don't want to do.

Shawn

You filed the wrong lawsuit I'm sorry.

Ethan

Yeah, or you followed it in the wrong place is nothing that I can do because they probably don't want to create the law and maybe they they don't have legal grounds to but that 1 comment about this being political is true and that's the thing I think if you're listening to this podcast and you're like hey I'm on team Shawn like this is super bad like what's happening.

Shawn

Um, right? sure. Yeah yeah.

Ethan

Or if you're kind of thinking if you're on the opposite side of the spectrum saying look at these two lib tar. Are you know room.

Shawn

Get oh look at this liberal Idiot They're probably saying about me all with his glasses and his jewishness. Of course this guy and I would say to you sir watch your tone.

Ethan

Click if right or.

Shawn

Watch your watch your tone. Let's be respectful here on the social media law cast. We love you and you love us and that's it. We're all united by our love for Ethan Wall thank you

Ethan

That's true because I'm going to try to just say from sitting closer to the middle is just remember this. Okay, we're all human beings all right both us and the judges. And we also have our own values. We've got our own beliefs and they influence our decisions and while that stinks because we think that the law should be the black letter of the law and what the law says the people who are interpreting or creating these laws have agendas and have values and have beliefs and they're going to play themselves out. And oftentimes we're going to disagree with it and it's going to suck and it's going to be unfair but that's just kind of the nature of what it is and I think that this was a wonderful thing for someone to kind of highlight this looks like political posturing because as this lawsuits gets refilled elsewhere. There may become a time and it would be wonderful if the supreme court had this and said look stop bringing politics into our court here's what the law should be regardless of what side that it goes on.

Shawn

Yes. Correct.

Ethan

But stop doing this to get more votes do it because it's right? or it's wrong and and leave it at that.

Shawn

Yeah, and I think that's that's like I said I thought that was a good place to wrap things up because we don't know what what's going to ah come out of all of these I think you know obviously as more. These lawsuits get pushed aside or solved or resolved in some way we can keep checking in and and follow the tiktok saga. It's a saga now in my mind so this was part 2 of our Tiktok our ongoing tiktok saga I can't wait till. All of these things are done and it's decided and I'll edit together a supercut of like the full story of Tiktok I'd be so fun it'll be so fun I have nothing better to do I'm very lonely and bored. Um I'm not lonely I'm just bored. Um.

Ethan

Perfect hope are right.

Shawn

Okay, Ethan maybe from the same room that would be weird I don't like to be in the same room as other people when I'm podcasting then I really do have to? yeah yeah, you're gonna sit in the kitchen. Um, ah I don't know how we're gonna do that I haven't even thought about that yet actually good point.

Ethan

You're only board. Maybe we'll do next week's podcast together out in California.

Ethan

So you're gonna make me sit in the kitchen. Okay, cool.

Shawn

All right on that note, that's a fun tease for next week but on that note Ethan in the meantime people want to see the show they want to do whatever they want to reach out to you and the social media law firm how you what do we do.

Ethan

Go to your local courthouse bang down the door and say chief justice Roberts we need more ethan and ah them or if you don't have the time to go to Washington d c you could just search for.

Shawn

Give me Ethan.

Ethan

Social media law firm online. We're on social media somewhere subscribe to the podcast smash the bell blah blah blah look we love doing this stuff. Be great if you subscribe and if you thought this was interesting. Share it with your friends and you also follow Shawn and.

Shawn

Yeah, yeah, going to Twitter or to Instagram Shawn writes just Google me or carrier Pigeon works. You can just tell the pigeon to.

Ethan

Learn about what he's up to buy.

Shawn

Go to the heart of Atlantis and it it will find me um because I'll be it. The atlantis resort in Jamaica baby you be okay I think that's it is it? No, it's in the Bahamas I screwed that joke up. Perfect place to end the episode goodbye goodbye Ethan.

Ethan

Cabael see.

Shawn

Ah.