Podcast

Ethan

Welcome to the social media law cast I am your host social media attorney Ethan Wall and with me is my friend and co-host Shawn Depa squali hey Shawn not much man, good good traveling this week out in California.

Shawn

Um, what's up buddy how you doing where are you this week

Ethan

I am yeah staying over in long beach but over at a friend of mine's house today. He stepped out for a little bit. So glad we could squeeze the podcast in while I'm on the road.

Shawn

Tight. Okay, well we have a fun show planned because we get to talk about 1 of our favorite things which is ourselves. Um, now we love ourselves with this is it.

Ethan

Oh fantastic. Finally, we're 28 episodes in. Ah.

Shawn

We're doing a new positivity thing on this show where we love ourselves so give us a you-go girl if you're out there listening and yeah, we listen. We always talk about different businesses and startups and how we can help them and tips for startups and tips for new businesses. All these things right? and we often will say oh a hypothetical. Let's say I'm building a a dungeons and dragons company or whatever. Well, the reason we're using that hypothetical Ethan as you know is because drum roll. Please oh wait.

Ethan

Oh wait, you have a drum roll. But no, that's not it. But oh no wait a minute I was I was in the fourth grade band and I actually did the drums so I'm taking pens from my friend's office.

Shawn

Have that? Oh no, it's a rim shot boo. Well anyway.

Shawn

Okay, drum roll please.

Ethan

Hope it does not mind.

Shawn

We are starting a dungeons and Dragons adjacent Adventure role-playing game tabletop company I said that so badly.

Ethan

We are yeah no look. We're a bunch of nerds that love play in D and D and so we are now writing and publishing our own adventures for other people to be able to play and experience and we're probably about realistically five months.

Shawn

But.

Shawn

Yes.

Ethan

Down the line at this point of building this company and drafting our own adventure so we are literally the startup that we that we speak to on this podcast. It's it's us. It's us and it's what we're doing on our and our sidepiece.

Shawn

It's us. Yeah, and we thought it would be fun to kind of you know because we're always talking about this like amorphous business that you might start or maybe in the process of starting it would be fun to kind of do what we normally do. But. Specifically talk about this thing that we're trying to build and some of like the problems we've already encountered and some of the things that we've avoided because we have an attorney on our side. Um, and and and hopefully this discussion will be helpful just from a standpoint of other people. Even if you're not. Starting a dungeons and Dragons esque company or working in the tabletop gaming space. Um I think the process of starting something from scratch and protecting yourself legally in the process is pretty similar for.

Ethan

Yeah I would say so I think regardless of what type of business you start, there's foundational legal things that every business needs to do whether you're writing dungeon and dragons campaigns or you're building the next Facebook. And then there are niche things that are going to apply to 1 business or another that may apply but are going to be prioritized differently or may not apply at all. So totally agree.

Shawn

Right? So like 1 of the base things and this is something we've talked about on this show before is copyrights and Tradesmark and trademarks we came up with an idea Ethan actually came up with an idea for a story to tell you know he. He approached me and was like hey I have all these ideas and I want to make ah you know like a tabletop game rpg module but I I don't really know where to start and I'm not you know I'm a lawyer I'm not a writer even though you know Ethan does write and he writes well um. You know it was like a different muscle so he had this great idea about this, you know, cool. Um, ah you know mansion or Manor that's like kind of haunted and has all these like fun interactions and encounters and puzzles and stuff inside. And we started like crafting this idea but 1 of the first things we had to do is a title right? What is our title going to be and Ethan originally you pitched now I can't remember because I only know what it's called now what was it originally.

Ethan

Yeah, so the working title was mysterium manner.

Shawn

That's it mysterium manner and for quite a while we were referring it like even in the body of the text you know we were using Mysterium Manner Mysterium manner. Um, and then of course as we started to get a little more serious about the whole thing etther was like you know what? let me do a search. As you do right? as you've said on the show many times. Let me do a search for the title and when what happened what? what was the result like what what ended up? What did you uncover there.

Ethan

Yeah, so ah, of course I uncovered. There's a popular board game out there called mysterium and on the giant cover of the box of the game is a giant manner. Okay, and so this kind of begs the question in a way. Of whether I independently created Myster manner because it's supposed to be mysterious and there's a mystery to be solved. That's there and it occurs in the matter or had I just seen the game at 1 point in full disclosure I never played mysterium. So I just knew it from going to board game and comic bookshops and things like that wasn't subliming in the back of my head where I was like oh mysterium manner rolls off the tongue. It sounds good I don't know one of the signature copyright cases involving music back in the day was the beatles were sued for copyright infringement because they created a song. Had like an identical riff or an identical tune to some other song. The Beatles were like on deposition in Affidavit saying I never heard this before and ultimately I think the court ruled against them because they said it was so similar that it was impossible for you to have independently created this because it was nearly identical and that.

Shawn

Wow.

Ethan

The the rationale is it must have crossed your stream of consciousness at some point and subliminally you had heard it and kind of replayed it or remade it Even if you didn't intend to copy it. It was so close. So yeah in this situation like many business owners.

Shawn

Interesting.

Ethan

I fell in love with the name and then realized you know we're making D and D. They're a board game. It is different mysterium Mystery Lots of people out there can use it but my internal gut told me this is close enough. That it could potentially be an issue and that while I wanted to advocate just like my clients do for let me use the name that I love because I I Love what I don't I love it and that domain is available and everything it was better to change it now than for us to.

Shawn

Ah, yeah, yeah.

Ethan

Publish this spend more time energy and effort promoting this only to get a season assist letter later and learn that we're infringing upon this other games trademark and that was going to be a lot worse than figuring out a new name for our game.

Shawn

Now.

Shawn

So we change the title now. Do we I don't know even know this This is not me like asking this question for the benefit of listeners. This is me genuinely asking. Do we own now. The new title do like officially like is that something that is owned.

Ethan

No so ah one we own the domain name. Ah so we own the domain name and the domain name links to right now. My personal website that has a landing page buildout for like a coming soon for the game. Um, and.

Shawn

No, and I'm that then I'm not gonna say it. Ah.

Ethan

I've done a trademark search seems to be pretty clear. Ah, and so yeah, we're kind of still in the r and d phase but it would be useful for us to file a trademark application soon because the process takes about 15 to 16 months. It to finalize once. The application is filed. We have priority. So ah as a business when you're thinking about what are things to do in the beginning versus what are things to do later filing a trademark usually is in my top four. it's not number you know but it's but it's not number one usually it's clearing the name is kind of number 2 on the list number one create a company number 2 make sure that your name and branding is clear. So even if you don't want to spend the fifteen hundred bucks on our law firm. For example to file the trademark application for you. You don't want to go to legal zoom and pay five hundred bucks and hope that they can do it for you correctly because you want to save that money in the beginning. It's smart to run a trademark clear and search or have a trademark opportunity do a search so you can at least know is my name dead in the water possibly like mysterium manor was. Or okay, this feels clear. Let's proceed with it and then decide when do I want to pull the trigger and file the application.

Shawn

So The once you have a name presuming that name is not incredibly common and you know it's clear and you even can buy the website for it. Your professional opinion is. If. At that point you're not quite ready or financially there to do it you you have a little bit of time.

Ethan

So it's hard to say because look I I will run a trademark search for a client. So let's say a client comes to me and says I just want to clear the name. Okay, don't really want to go through the whole kit and caboodle yet cause I don't know if I'm gonna pull the trigger on the business. So I conduct a search and I say look There are some of these trademarks or existing applications that are out there that are similar I'd say that you still have a pretty strong chance of getting a trademark There are a risk but the risks are low and you can even make them better by adding a logo to it or switching up the class if you're going to file in or whatever but you got a good chance and clients says awesome. Not going to pull the trigger yet. But thanks. Three months six months one month twelve months later they come back hey ready to do it I'm like awesome Let's do a quick trademark search before we file make sure nothing has happened and there are times where someone it's gone someone has filed the exact same thing and I don't use this as a scare tactic because I can't say.

Shawn

It's gone.

Ethan

Happens often I'll probably say it happens less than 10 percent of the time. But for those 10% of the people that it happens the the the look upon their face when they say fuck I should have done it. Um.

Shawn

Yeah.

Ethan

And I'm kicking myself for not spending the extra seven hundred and fifty dollars between the cost of a search and the cost of doing it and now I'm going to redo everything else it it really sucks. It socks do feel that way. So I'm not saying my professional opinion is wait what I am saying is if you have the money to do it. Do it.

Shawn

There.

Ethan

Early and don't kick yourself in the butt for not doing it but not everyone has unlimited startup budget and I get that and so but you can't what you can't do what I think is really stupid is have a name. Don't.

Shawn

Yeah I.

Ethan

Search for it and then spend money building a company around it building a logo building a brand buying a domain building a website and then saying let me check now and realize you're committing Trademark infringement because someone else has it. That's really stupid because now how much time energy and effort and expense have you spent. Without knowing whether what you're doing is putting yourself a legal risk or not and you're either going to maybe you won't be caught but you're likely can't get a trademark can't grow your brand and can't grow big because then somebody else is going to notice it. They're going to sue you for trademark infringement or send you a ceaseynthesis letter and it's worse later.

Shawn

Yeah, well so okay, we don't know in ours yet though. So that's important note Maybe we should get on that I'm not gonna say what we've changed the name to suffice to say it's still a manner I'll tease.

Ethan

Yeah.

Shawn

Um, so manner. Let's just call it manner for now for the purposes of this discussion. We're working on manner so that was one of the for. Yeah there you go So sure one of the first things we did Obviously we did the whole what is the name. How can we clear it right.

Ethan

Yeah, we're working on but working on mystery manner. It's not the name that's ordo. Yeah.

Shawn

We also have a company that we're going to start to put these books out through right? a sort of ah ah I don't want to say publishing company because I mean I guess it is anyway, we we want a brand right to release these books under and and Ethan you know our nomadic friend here came up with a great.

Ethan

Yeah.

Shawn

Concept of the wandering Dm ah dm for those not in the par lance is dungeon master. It's short for dungeon master. So the wandering Dm this is you know a nomadic ah sort of ah you know enigmatic figure. Who wanders around collecting and telling stories wherever he goes um and interestingly and ah you know I least I think it's interesting. The the idea for all of this and I think you should talk about this a little bit came from sort of you. Going to different places in the world and seeing sort of like the homespun stories there and being like oh that's cool and and and jotting them down. Um I know in the original pitch for manner you you know, kind of called out different. Kind of locales that you had been inspired by you know for different rooms in the house and things have changed through iterations. But I I still think there is there are elements of it in it and I think the concept of as a whole is really looking to embrace the idea of of actually collecting. Stories from around the world but then Reffiltering Reffiltering them out in this fantasy world. We're building you want to talk about that a little.

Ethan

Yeah, I'd say sure so the initial concept I've been nomadic for 4 years now my dream in life is to travel and explore the world and to do good along the way and so. Part of my travels I will say oh there's a place that I find really interesting I want to move there for a month or so and explore that area of the world and see what it's like so a classic example I was always interested in Easter Island there's an island out in the middle of nowhere. And somehow the indigenous people from the island spent thousands of years carving these giant Moais these big giant head statues and there are a thousand of them around this island. How did these people build it. How did they get there and so. Flew to Easter Island stayed there for a while with some friends and learned all about the lore and ultimately was like wow there's an incredible story here that I think needs to be shared and so this idea came of like this type of opportunity is not accessible to a lot of people to be able to travel so what if I could take these stories and really honor them in a wonderful way. And then share these stories to regain that people can learn about it and then they can go on their own adventures and and find this exploration and um, so that was kind of like where this idea started and my brother Keith.

Ethan

Was like what about this idea of a wandering Dm. You travel the world you collect stories and now you could bring them back to people and as you travel and meet other people interested in gaming. You could sit around the table at a pub and run a game for somebody and share these different stories. So it's ah you know one of the tales is oldest time. Learning stories and retelling them through our own voice and sharing them with other people and so the idea for mystery manner um was that creating a really big campaign at the outset felt overwhelming for us because it was our first time doing it. So instead. There were like really interesting neat things I had seen across the world like meow wolf in Santa Fe that was like this mysterious arthouse this oddity museum in London it had like cool stuff and I was like what if I take really interesting elements of things that we loved and put them in this ever shifting changing house. So that we can add these different elements in and create something that was easier for us to get off the ground with a self-contained story and then that can live in part of the world that we're going to ultimately grow and build the more stories there are the like the world building concept the more of these things come in. That's really kind of where the idea of the wandering Dm came from and the specific story that we're starting with.

Shawn

Yeah, and you know so within all of that we then started to. We did the basics right? So what is our product. We know our product is going to be this first book right. And so then we started to look at well. How do you put one of these books out. What are your options for releasing this kind of book. Do you go to? do you just print a book and bring it to a bookstore. Do you do it on Amazon where you know are there niche places. Ah you know there are is the answer to that. Um, and and there are are 2 really main hubs I don't know how interesting this stuff will be so I'm not going to go too deep into this suffice to say I bring it up though because there are different legal rules depending on where we decide to release this book. Um, ah Ethan do you want to kind of explain that a little bit like what I mean and and you know I'm not legal like the police are going to come after you but you know.

Ethan

Yeah. Sure, yeah, totally. Although when I was a kid and I would watch these movies on my vhs tape and the first thing you would see is the symbol of like an eagle. It was like unauthorized pirated version send you to jail and I'm two hundred and fifty thousand dollars fine and I'm like du should we do this and he like stole a movie off Napster. He's like they're never gonna catch us and then boom the door kicks in right? It swat riot gear. Throws my dad in jail and I and I was orphaned.

Shawn

Yep, yeah, and that's that's that's how your father died in those prison riots All those years later stress. He started them to be fair ah trying to escape.

Ethan

So new. So okay, right? So what Shawn's bringing up in this specific instance is so because this is not going to apply to everybody. Not no one. Publishing a book. Very little people are probably listening to podcast publish a book but sharing your own business but we realized there was unique legal compliance issues that applied to our business. That's also going to be similar to yours. So for us. We had copyright issues because we're building stories. We want people who are interested in dungeon and dragons to play and we want to publish them on these websites that are made for people who love d and d well dungeon and dragons is owned by hasborough they own intellectual property and there are certain rules of what you can or cannot use in your books. Depending upon what site you want to publish at all, you want to publish on the big site where everybody is awesome. You can also use intellectual property. Great. You gotta give us 75% of every single darn book you sell or you can sell them on the second or third popular website. Still really good options but you can't use any of our intellectual property. But. You can make 75% so we had to navigate unique legal copyright issues for our business where somebody else might have different legal issues that they need to navigate at the outset.

Shawn

Yes.

Shawn

Right? So the important thing to in the general sense I think the important thing to remember is that that next step after okay, we have our idea we have our names we have all of our titles. All of these things is. What legal loopholes do I need to look out for what what or rather pitfalls do I need to watch out for what are going to be the compliance issues that I might run into because you don't want to run too far in 1 direction you know and then find out in our case, this would have been ah you know had be written a whole story involving. Um. You know, ah these characters that exist in the dungeons and dragon world called beyonders right? They are like these giant eyeballs that fly around had we written our whole thing and anchored it all a big bad guy is going to be a beyonder and then done this research we would have found out. Well if. We want to use beyonder. It can only be sold on the site that's going to take 75% cut and that's because that is a creature that is created and owned by Hasbro now interestingly in this space we can use. Ah you know elves. Because elves are not the creation of dungeons and dragons and I and I believe they even share some of those properties on like a they they have like a hey we'll let you'll use some of our intellectual property but only certain ones and they're the more generic ones.

Ethan

Right In a nutshell we can use elves but we can't use Legalus from Lord of the rings. You know? So there's there's certain things that can be done in your business. You're going to experience these things too If you are a company that wants to make cookies.

Shawn

Um, but you know that? yeah.

Shawn

Now. Yeah.

Ethan

And you want to make it out of your own house as opposed to renting a space awesome. You could do that but you probably have to get licenses where your kitchen is approved to create commercial goods that you're going to be able to sell so you've got food compliance if you're going to be a company that's going to run online giveaways. Yeah.

Shawn

Tell it ye, That's what I was gonna say I was gonna say online giverways. Yep.

Ethan

Right? Maybe you want to giveaway on don' what you're gonna say yeah right? you want to right? Then you gotta know what are sweep stakes and contest laws and how to comply with those or if you're going to be an influencer or a creator that's gonna create Awesome Videos. You've got to learn understand what are the influencer laws and if people are sending you free products or paying you money you have to know what they are so regardless of what type of.

Shawn

And and what platform you're going to put your content out on much like us is going to ask in return for allowing you to put your content out because nowadays there's different rules all over the place for what they own what you own I mean you know.

Ethan

Yeah, there right? So at the beginning you figure out one I know we kind of skipped over this because but 1 you got to create a company at some point.

Shawn

And that stuff's also it has to be a decision you consciously make I think.

Ethan

For our standards I already have an education company that as Shawn mentioned I wrote a bunch of books never wrote anything creative like this so I'm like cool, let's not create a new company yet. Let's run things through the existing company and but we're ultimately going to create an lllc specifically for the d and d stuff. Um, and so that's one 2 clearing the name and then 3 you want to figure out what are the legal issues that are relevant to my business and how am I going to address those things in the beginning before I take off and run an online giveaway and then have my page banned. Didnt follow the site rules or I sold a bunch of cookies and I get a letter from the attorney general saying you're not registered as a business and you don't have this license or shutting your ass down. Um, you know you you could take the risks but the risks are bad and it's up to you what you want to do. But if you're going to be smart running a business you're going to take some of those steps and figuring out.

Shawn

Yeah.

Ethan

But laws and regulations that apply is a good initial step.

Shawn

Yeah, and I mean you know I I guess teach his own and people will take risks but I do think from I mean I know from personal experience that the the the risk is not worth it because the the setback from the you know. To to sometimes get far and then have to start all the way over because you didn't do the due diligence in the beginning sometimes makes you walk away from the product entirely. So It's worth it to slow down in the beginning and really have that plan so that you're not working backwards or. I mean resources are so precious for startups in the very beginning money time. All of it So anything that is like great I did all of this for nothing has a huge impact. Emotionally you know on on your like on your drive financially. Yeah on your you know all of it. So.

Ethan

Um, financially do yeah.

Shawn

It It feels like a slowdown sometimes but I think that ultimately ah, you're really helping yourself in the long in the long term. Um and and you know and then from there we started creating a thing. We've got a whole thing Written. We're getting. Closer and Closer. We've made it to for our purposes a play testing stage so people have actually played our game now and we've gotten feedback from those people on what they thought of the game and we've made changes based on that feedback. It's all very exciting. Um, and so where are we? yeah.

Ethan

Yeah, and I would even just well we're just gonna pause for a second just to say how great the feedback process is. We're working through that right now is we thought we had something great and then people played it and they're like oh that's cool, but this sucks. Why is that there and we're like no the thing's so darn important but getting feedback from others even if it's not a legal thing is really important of being able to listen to that feedback and decide how much weight that you give that and so even as a business having a mentor having. Someone who's gone through this before to bounce your ideas off of and stress test. Your ideas is important because we are wired and can only see things in a certain Way. So Just want to emphasize. Well, it's not legal I think it's a really good important tip to make sure that you're running that by people getting feedback and then listening to your own gut and figuring out what to do with that feedback.

Shawn

Yeah, no, that's good I'm glad you I'm glad you slowed us down to flag that good because I was going to you know, sort of move us into so so what is next both for the theoretical startups out there and for us right? we. We did all of the first like 4 steps. Basically we're getting ready to release our product or our video or our cookies. Whatever it is right? You're at now at that precipice stage. You've secured your trademark. You've done all of your things. What is is there anything that we're missing before we go is there are there last things that we should know tips that you have ah both for people listening and for us to then go like oh yeah, that's actually something we should add to our list.

Ethan

Yeah I mean if you're gonna be doing business with people in some form other you need to have a contract and need to figure out what contracts might apply to you. So for our instance, we hired a look Shawn is an unbelievable writer. He's incredibly creative. Um.

Shawn

Thank you stop.

Ethan

I wouldn't say designing maps was your strength and neither am I I'm a lawyer I got the creativity of a newt. Um, so you know or at least the artistic ability of a newt so it so I had to hire someone to design the maps for the game and as part of that I had to have a contract and the contract had to say hey.

Shawn

Yeah, yeah.

Ethan

You're creating this map for me I own the map you get whatever the fee and she charged me a higher fee because she's like can I sell this on my my website. Ah and I said no I don't want to I want the exclusive right? She's like great. Well I'm going to charge you 25% more and I'm like done. Let's put this into a contract.

Shawn

Yep.

Shawn

Um, great. Yep.

Ethan

Um, if this is gonna be sold on our website. Okay, which it will be um then we need to have terms and conditions for our website or our app. So I would say you know a couple things are before you go to launch, you need to make sure that if you're gonna do business with people.

Shawn

Who.

Ethan

Don't just have a handshake deal no matter how much they trust you or vice versa and 2 You want to have your ducks in a row we are going to need to have our specific llc created the specific bank account tied to it.

Shawn

Da.

Ethan

Because if I run the business through me or through our existing company and something goes wrong I'm personally liable or you could be personally liable if you're signing contracts a Shawn Dea squali um as opposed to wandering. Yeah, we'll see.

Shawn

Um, yeah.

Shawn

Well I don't I Never I I never use my real name on any contract that I've ever signed in my life. So and you'll never find out what it really is.

Ethan

What do you did I just blow up your your spot with your name. Oh oh your you your alias is it Shawny d.

Shawn

Don't worry about it I don't know what you're talking about.

Ethan

Shawny d with a w like SHAWNIECapital d

Shawn

Ah, it's Horace bright fellow now I am going to cut this out of the podcast and I never want to speak of it again. Please don't mention Horace Brightfeow no one mention Horace Brightfellow do not send mail to him. Do not try to find him or look him up because he is not me. Anyway, Ethan this has been a very very very very informative episode I hope um and if not I hope that it was at least interesting for people to kind of see that there's ah you know other stuff kind of cooking for you outside of. You know, being an incredible attorney. You know you you have a lot of ah great ideas and and a lot of ah you know, really ah achievable goals. Um, and it's fun that this was one of them and that we're we're like almost there you know it it. It is very gratifying to get close. And I understand now why people like to be part of startups because it's like fun you like figure it out along the way and it's like then everyone gets frustrated then you figure it out again and everyone's happy and then you launch and you're like yay and then you know the Ceo like skims a bunch of money off the top of the company and the company collapses and. And someone else comes in and swoops it up and buys it and at least that's how I assume it goes. That's what it happens on Tv anyway.

Ethan

Yeah, if if if I see Horace dipping into our bank accounts for any unnecessary expenses like Spiderman 2 and a new ps 5 for the holidays which is not. And approved business expense for the wandering Dm. Yeah, that could be what an abundance mindset. Yeah, right? just? um.

Shawn

Um, no, but it is a great listener gift to your favorite podcast coasts. We got to get a P O box.

Shawn

Get a pinot box eat then just in case, you never know someone could email us tomorrow and be like I was listening and I was getting ready to send it and I realized I don't know where to send it? Um, but if that is the case where can people find us online to try to reach out to us so that we can get our PS 4 with Spiderman to bundle.

Ethan

Good.

Ethan

Yes, well they could first reach out to us. Oh yeah I was like all right man you want to aim low I'm sure they're just giving those things away at this point nothing with with the black ring of death. Did you just get the eyes. Oh damn frustrated.

Shawn

PS 5

Shawn

I would like an original Xbox please. Ah.

Ethan

Remember going to cheese. What was what's the what was up the the electronic store in South Florida it's old thing. Super cheap. It was a giant massive warehouse you to get a ticket not circuit city. No it was near the Sawgrass Mills mall it you like got a ticket.

Shawn

Circuit City Circuit city.

Ethan

And then they like give you the item like at the end it's good right? after I bought the damn xbox I take it back. Forget black ring of death takes like a month to return anyway, you could find us since that's probably going to get cut out ah by searching for the social media law firm.

Shawn

Oh I Know what you're talking about. But I don't know the name but I yes.

Ethan

On social media or if you want to go to ethanwwall.com you want to dig around. You might find the new name of the book because there is a landing page under latest project on ethanwwall.com so that's for you.

Shawn

Um, interesting. That's right.

Ethan

Might be able to find that along with a cool documentary and some other like fun stuff who knows ah.

Shawn

Yes, and it's still early days of this project. So please only positive feedback. We need the encouragement and we are not emotionally prepared to take any type of criticism yet.

Ethan

Yeah, we just read our play testing second session play testing feedback and we had a good cry yesterday. So positive. Yes, sure where can people where can people find you and not horace.

Shawn

Yeah, yeah, is enough criticism for one day ah

Shawn

Know you can find Shawn Deepa Squaly this person who ah is the only name that I do have ah ah on Twitter at seanwrights and elsewhere online under the name Shawn just search Shawn and I'll pop up somewhere I'm sure maybe even in your living room to do a little dance. Into your heart. Um, all right? Ethan this was a fun time I think we might have 1 more in us before holiday time. Ah, but you know I'm not entirely sure let me look at my calendar up here on the wall. Ah what is.

Ethan

Ok.

Ethan

Oh she's this we hold on whoever my friend is ah just gonna knock on the door. Ah you hold excuse me hold on for a second.

Shawn

Oh that's that's so weird you got knock on the door I also got a knock on my door with the fuck is going on. You'll knock on.

Ethan

Who's knocking on my door who is even out here in my living room what is going on. Well.

Shawn

Um, well well Well, what do we have he here I more ah I.

Ethan

No, all Ethan's me now.

Shawn

For those who are listening only we literally just switch spots because I've been in Shawn's living room. Mix those were so excited for it. Ah ah, ah how do I end the podcast ah smash the bell subscribe a Ethan's good to see you see next week bye I'm Shawn did did d to did de d.

Ethan

Um, this bit makes no sense. Ah all right? You have to end the podcast press the button.